Restoring spy logic (as in ability to infiltrate buildings) would require either converting all cameos to palette.pal or hacking the exe and replacing hard-coded palette.pal with the current cameo.pal
I don't actually remember the reason why the Ghost never had any spy features (aside from permanent cloaking) involved. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
The ghost was actually only meant to be a very efficient scout.
Though i wouldn't mind something special. But C4 or any offensive weapon would be too powerful and also boring/ordinary.
Maybe some kind of melee EMP weapon, so he can shortcut circuits which allows him to disable buildings and vehicles. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
i made a spy which could grab onto vehicles (using limpet mine logic) in one of my mods ages ago. But it just seemed stupid that he couldn't ever let go of the vehicle QUICK_EDIT
i made a spy which could grab onto vehicles (using limpet mine logic) in one of my mods ages ago. But it just seemed stupid that he couldn't ever let go of the vehicle
Perhaps he is sabotaging it then retreating? _________________ Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0
limpet logic removes the unit that fired this weapon. There is no retreating unit possible. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I was never a fan of limpet drones or their abilities, I'd rather use something a little more unique and useful. I don't mind the thought of giving him a combat knife melee, Col. Burton style. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:14 am Post subject:
lol, that'd be awesome!
How 'bout a laser knife weapon, a super short ranged laser attack, hurting only infantry units? _________________ Destroy to create. All for the hunt to dominate!
I was never a fan of limpet drones or their abilities, I'd rather use something a little more unique and useful. I don't mind the thought of giving him a combat knife melee, Col. Burton style.
Try attaching many "silent" sound clips (with Priority=100) to the knife weapon when it fires. If the sound system was spammed to play these fake sounds, they might block the death cry of the infantry and the EVA "unit lost" message from being played. That way the enemy would have no idea you're going around stabbing his infantry unless he was directly looking. Though I don't know if the EVA message would be blocked if you were so far away from the scene that the fake sounds are not even played. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Great idea, I'll have a play and see what results I can come up with. I've found that in the past EVA Messages can be blocked out if so many different priority sounds are playing at a time (online games have been lost due-to CABAL/EVA not informing us of bases being attacked). QUICK_EDIT
I was never a fan of limpet drones or their abilities, I'd rather use something a little more unique and useful.
What's unique in another unit that can kill the enemy? The whole arsenal is full of such units. There is not one Nod unit (except the engineer and the ghost) whose role isn't to kill.
But a unit that can slow down enemy vehicles, which can seriously cripple the enemy economy by slowing down harvesters unseen and in addition spy the enemy base when attached would be actually different and unique.
Especially when the unit doesn't has to deploy like the limpet mine and thus can attach itself much easier and faster.
Many maps also have neutral units and attached to one of them could be useful too: a free scout.
I really don't see any purpose in having a cloaked melee unit.
-the unit uncloaks by default whenever near infantry, so it's not unseen and the uncloaking phase takes long enough for the enemy to give the first shot.
-there are other units which can kill infantry way more efficient. So it's useless to build an expensive unit whose specialty is too kill single infantry, while infantry are all cheap and used in masses and while it can't even kill a simple minigunner unharmed.
There isn't a single enemy infantry worth the effort to kill it with the ghost. It's not like TI has a 5000cr expensive super infantry which is hard to encounter face to face and which needs a sneaky hidden unit to get close enough and where it's worth to spend 500-800cr and a lot of micromanagement to get it killed. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I really like the limpet idea, especially if it reduces the speed by more then 70% ^^ _________________
So, yeah, I've created a new acc. 'cause no one could remember Ordosherrscher - and I didn't like that name anyway. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject:
Limpet logic is very special. I always use these drones and place it in tiberium fields so that when enemy harvesters come in and it attaches it to them. That way I can spy on their bases. That would be even useful if there is enemy nod base that is cloaked since they can detect stealth bases. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
I actually always found Limpet Drones really useful against enemy harvesters, since it was a simple way to scout the map and the enemy base, and it would also slow down the enemy harvesting operations too.
My only problem with applying Limpet logic to the Ghost is that it wouldn't make a lot of sense, unless there would be a way for the Ghost to either detach himself from the enemy vehicle, or for him to "place" a Limpet Drone onto the vehicle without having to actually get on it himself, and I'm not sure that either are possible with TS's engine. QUICK_EDIT
We could change his description to another cyborg like unit, so his body can attach to another unit. The graphic/SHP could be changed as well to look more like a mechanical device than a human/humanoid.
As a placeholder, a resized RA2 terrordrone could be used for example until a new shp is done.
IIRC the ghost hasn't been drawn by Swirekster yet and also hasn't seen any other appearance in some important document, so there wouldn't be such a big problem in changing this units graphic that drastically. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
The ghost has already been sketched', and I feel making it a Cyborg is unnecessary. Thinking about it, using limpet logic could indeed make the unit a bit more useful for reasons stated above. We could give it a test. QUICK_EDIT
If we end up using the limpet logic the Ghost would need some modifications IMO. It doesn't really make sense for such a living infantry unit to simply disappear or attach himself to an enemy vehicle just so he can wait until the enemy's repair pad crushes him.
Alright, I've lurked on here forever, cause I'm lazy, but what if the Ghost had an ability to briefly cause an EMP pulse on a single enemy vehicle? It would reveal the stealth, so there is the tradeoff, but I think it would be a useful "offensive" weapon to be used in concert with hijackers.
Maybe have a garbage reload time, or one that lasts a little longer than the effect, so it isn't ridiculous. It would be useful for some sort of ambush on vehicles with some well hidden engineers... Just a thought. Great game overall, keep up the awesome work! QUICK_EDIT
Alright, I've lurked on here forever, cause I'm lazy, but what if the Ghost had an ability to briefly cause an EMP pulse on a single enemy vehicle? It would reveal the stealth, so there is the tradeoff, but I think it would be a useful "offensive" weapon to be used in concert with hijackers.
Maybe have a garbage reload time, or one that lasts a little longer than the effect, so it isn't ridiculous. It would be useful for some sort of ambush on vehicles with some well hidden engineers... Just a thought. Great game overall, keep up the awesome work!
This would be a cool function in lieu of the Limpet Drone idea not working. I can see it functioning like some sort of short-range grenade with a long cooldown time that the Ghost could decloak and toss. It could be designed so that it'd be near-useless against fast moving targets and impractical as something that could be easily spammed, but should be useful for going behind enemy lines to disable the slow moving, heavy units (or axillary units), such as Railgun Tanks or Mole Artillery.
My only problem would be that, like LKO said, it's another offensive ability, something Nod has so much of already. Ideally I'd prefer the Ghost's ability to be something like attaching a Limpet Drone to a vehicle, however the way it's coded might restrict the Ghost to being lost when it "boards" the vehicle, which I'd be against in that case since the idea is a little silly, and it's somewhat impractical given the cost of the unit and the fact that it can already freely and easily scout on its own. QUICK_EDIT
Another idea would be giving the Ghost a weapon that attaches an anim to an enemy object (Sticky=yes), like the DZ beacon, which reveals its surroundings for a short period of time. Unfortunately, it would reveal the area for all players. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
^^not possible.
Sticky=yes doesn't work and there is no way (except emp-sparks) to make an anim follow a unit.
Such an anim would also remove the shroud for every player and not only the one with the Ghost. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
So, if the Limpet idea isn't used, how about a EMP weapon with about 10 seconds duration and reload time of at least 2 minutes?
It can be used to disable a harvester, slowing down the eco consideratly, or even disabling a tank to let a hijacker enter.
It would have a range of either 1 or 2, so quite close (harder to approach moving enemies)... _________________
So, yeah, I've created a new acc. 'cause no one could remember Ordosherrscher - and I didn't like that name anyway. QUICK_EDIT
EMP was my first idea (4th post) so i would be fine with this too.
However i like using different logics and the limpet is a completely unused one in TI.
If the EMP is used, then i think the effect should last quite long and the ROF matching the duration. After all it's only a very small area that is affected.
It would be really cool if this unit would be the only one which can disable/shutdown powerplants but i fear this isn't possible (Dark Reign had a saboteur which was able to shut down the entire power supply by just attacking a single powerplant. This was a really nice feature) _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Yep, the engineer can hijack vehicles (only the Nod one, though)
Giving this ability the spy would be quite unbalanced. He could sneak into a base and steal the conyard/important buildings before the enemy even think of that possibility. Additionally, it would hard-counter a Mammuth MK _________________
So, yeah, I've created a new acc. 'cause no one could remember Ordosherrscher - and I didn't like that name anyway. QUICK_EDIT
Nordos, giving the Ghost the ability to hijack vehicles doesn't mean he can capture buildings.
I think Kassad's always-cloaked hijacker in ZH was balanced well by giving him a long build time (even though he only cost like 500 creds), meaning you couldn't spam them. They were pretty fragile as well.
At least this would force players to be more careful and use more units that can detect stealth (Jumpjets and MSV for GDI, Mobile Radar for Nod, infantry for both). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Oh, somehow I mixed engineer and Ghost into one person in my mind, giving him both abilities instead of only hijacking ...
Well, still, it would be the most overpowered conter against a MK. As it is, you can already get it if you are using special tricks (luring it into a stealth field, coming with a APC and such stuff), yet it is highly 'intense'.
Capturing Harvester isn't as easy neither, yet with a cloaked hijacker, that would become devastating. You would need to have a cloak-detecting unit always following your harvester and even then I'm not sure if you can actually snipe the Ghost before he enters the Harv _________________
So, yeah, I've created a new acc. 'cause no one could remember Ordosherrscher - and I didn't like that name anyway. QUICK_EDIT
I think Kassad's always-cloaked hijacker in ZH was balanced well by giving him a long build time (even though he only cost like 500 creds), meaning you couldn't spam them.
Different buildtime than cost is not possible in TS, unfortunately.
It actually is possible - but that would affect all costs/buildtimes
What happens, though, if we give the special houses the reduced cost/increased builtime? I mean, a house that is solely used to make a navy and co possible. I guess it wouldn't affect the main house, right? _________________
So, yeah, I've created a new acc. 'cause no one could remember Ordosherrscher - and I didn't like that name anyway. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject:
How bout a laser gun, or tachyon gun? Or sniper.
Although the Infector is kind of the sniper unit, you can only have one. Maybe a mortar launcher?
Or how bout make him explode on death like the bomb drone?
Make him use his fists, so he punches motherfuckers right out.
Is it possible to have multiple attack animations? Make him have a punching and kicking animaton, kick their heads right off.
How bout a targeting laser?
He's gotta stand still for a while, but he calls in an icbm strike? Or chemical missile strike? You'd have to whip up some crazy code and animation for that.
Then theres C4.
"Limpet" logic seems kinda cool. It's like he jumps onto the tank. Imagine if you could get a jumping animation? Forget the slow down logic part, no need for him to slow the tank down. He just jumps on it. If you could some how make him jump on and off tanks at will, I'd be pretty funny. Disable the repair bay/repair tank limpet removal logic, because this guy's invisible, so the depot wouldn't do shit, and the tank, well, he'd hide himself well. Plus, he could just jump off the tank and onto the rep tank. He can dance like a motherfucker
Whats that project that injects new code into TS? We got Ares for YR, but whats the TS one?
Make him go BOO! and spook the shit out of infantry units in a nearby radius so that they run away all the way off the map.
How bout combine all them ideas into one, make this guy a super spy. Might have to bump the price up, maybe limit it to one.
I've been pullen so many ideas outta my ass it is like I got diarrhea.
EDIT: WAIT I got another one! The bowel movements keep coming:
Have him toss a berserk gas grenade, which drives infantry insane so that they start killing each other. Maybe it could affect tanks as well.
Dammit, wheres that code injector syringe for TS? This game needs it's fix badly, look how pale he is. My god, he's shuddering! Someone call a dealer ASAP. _________________ Destroy to create. All for the hunt to dominate!
Whats that project that injects new code into TS? We got Ares for YR, but whats the TS one?
The number of 3D artists in the community seems to be slowly increasing.
The number of C++ competent programmers is at a pretty steady 5-7.
The number of C++ competent programmers learned in the functions of the TS engine is also rather small.
Hyper's project hasn't seen much public activity of late (but I wouldn't rule out that he's still working on it). Mostly bug fixes and compat stuff so far, afaik. QUICK_EDIT
You know what, the icbm idea actually isn't that bad.
If you give him a very long firing anim, you can set FireUp to a very high value and this way delay the shot.
So if he has to stand still for e.g. 10 seconds and is then also uncloaked, it would give the opponent enough time to react. This way even something like a small nuke would be balanced.
Though this would be a lot like the Starcraft ghost and as already said,
Nod has enough attackers and some special logic units are needed to spice it up. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I like the idea of a chem. grenade. Instead of making the soldiers kill each other it could make them move away from each other. Basically breaking formations and scattering units. _________________ Get out of here, stalker. QUICK_EDIT
I think combining the cloak and an AOE emp burst/grenade would serve more of a defensive purpose. Offensively it would not be terribly helpful in taking down anything near a base (assuming your opponent is smart enough to have detectors), defensively, it would be useful in striking at vehicles within range of your own defenses/hijackers.
I see a balance as the emp reload time being twice as long as the effect time. That way, the vehicle is disabled only long enough for a highly coordinated trap, or for the Ghost to escape and continue harrassing the attack force.
With that in mind, it would serve as either a poor counter for the MK, assuming it would have support units, but might be enough of an advantage for AT infantry/vehicles/aircraft to ambush the crap out of some column of vehicles and bug out. With any sort of fog of war, the Ghost would be an excellent reason to utilize mole transports and AT infantry. Right now I feel like that tactic is overshadowed by engineer rushes. This would give these units a more defensive role.
Also, doesn't the emp disable structures briefly? I could have sworn I've knocked out AI base defenses/my own radar screwing around in the past... QUICK_EDIT
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The Nod "Ghost" soldier...
I don't mind the thought of giving him a combat knife melee, Col. Burton style.
