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Twisted Insurrection Feedback
Moderators: Aro, Crimsonum, ErastusMercy, Lin Kuei Ominae, ^Rampastein
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Sharpshooter
Medic


Joined: 06 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject:  Twisted Insurrection Feedback Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I discovered this mod about two months ago, and been casually playing it ever since. Beat the campaign missions, played a number of multiplayer maps, both against the AI and human opponents. Even though this mod is not fully finished, I am very impressed with the quality of work, and looking forward to the next public beta.
Since I have a lot to say about it, I will try to summarize my feedback based on broad categories.

Campaign:
Generally fun to play, no real problems with mission difficulty, overall pretty manageable. The briefings need to be opened separately, and could be pretty easy to miss first time around. Some also have minor grammar mistakes, but seeing how it will be changed in Public Beta 5, its not a big issue. I also really liked that you could feel the passage of time as you progress through the missions, with the technology slowly improving from Tiberian Dawn era to Twisted Insurrection era.

Music:
Great job overall, really like it. Unlike original Tiberian Sun, the music here is less gloomy and more upbeat. Overall, very suitable for the game.

Skirmish:
Great selection of maps, as well as a much better preview during the map selection compared to basic Tiberian Sun. Maps are of high quality, and remakes of some of the more popular maps are also a plus. The only thing that is missing is the random map generator like in the original. Is this still something that is planned for the future releases or are you ditching it?

Multiplayer:
Playing a few games online was pretty fun, much like the original Tiberian Sun was. The only bug (?) that I encountered is if you have a map with, say max 2 players, and you were to accidentally choose more players (Human or AI) some of them would start in the same location. This would result in early game carnage, usually with whoever choose GDI winning due to higher armor and firepower of starting Goliath tanks compared to Nod Eclipse tanks.

Graphics:
The very first time I played this, it almost felt like a different game. All the units, buildings and environment has much more detail than anything from the original Tiberian Sun. The unchanged stuff from original Tiberian Sun actually stands out compared to much more detailed work that you guys put in. Really liked what I saw!

Misc:
During Skirmish mode, the starting units are always the basic infantry and a basic tank, no other units like in the Tiberian Sun. Is this intentional or will it be changed?
In Skirmish, GDI seems to be getting all kinds of units from crates, both new and old GDI units as well as Globotech ones. Nod, on the other hand, only ever gets harvesters and occasionally a scorpion walker mech. I never got any other units at all. Is this intentional?
Using Ion Cannon will cause any infantry to suffer Tiberium-based death and occasionally turn into Visceroids. Is that supposed to happen?
Nod Incinerator infantry is immune to damage from other Incinerators, but will get damaged by random ground and forest fires. Can they be made immune to all kinds of fire damage?
Nod Ghost doesn't get damaged by Tiberium, is that supposed to happen?
Nod Machinist, especially after seeing the concept art, seems like a really badass guy. Don't think that the current voice that he has does him justice.
Captured civilian cars don't seem to carry any passengers. Is this supposed to happen?
Are the oil pumps ever going to generate money like they do in Red Alert? I remember seeing a tutorial someone posted on how to make that happen in Tiberian Sun, so I was wondering if that will be implimented in the future.
Why do some maps have a Hum-Vee instead of the 'Dragonfly' H.V.R.?  

Thanks again, and keep up the good work!  Smile

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Twisted Insurrection Feedback Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sharpshooter wrote:
The only thing that is missing is the random map generator like in the original. Is this still something that is planned for the future releases or are you ditching it?


As far as I know Random Map Generator cannot work because of custom terrain. The Generator logic breaks as soon as you add/remove tilesets in the theater configuration files.

Sharpshooter wrote:
The only bug (?) that I encountered is if you have a map with, say max 2 players, and you were to accidentally choose more players (Human or AI) some of them would start in the same location.


That's weird, does this happen in Skirmish as well? If you try to have more players than the map allows, the game should give you a message of the map limit. It might not work in online multiplayer for some reason...

Sharpshooter wrote:
During Skirmish mode, the starting units are always the basic infantry and a basic tank, no other units like in the Tiberian Sun. Is this intentional or will it be changed?


Intentional, so the starting armies are equivalent. The same is in RA2. In TS, you could get a random set of units, and someone starting with 9 Light Infantry, 3 Buggies and 1 Bike was surely underhanded against someone with cyborgs and reapers/Tick Tanks.

Sharpshooter wrote:
In Skirmish, GDI seems to be getting all kinds of units from crates, both new and old GDI units as well as Globotech ones. Nod, on the other hand, only ever gets harvesters and occasionally a scorpion walker mech. I never got any other units at all. Is this intentional?


Shouldn't be, GDI should get GDI (old and new) units, while Nod should get Nod units (old and new). GT units should be available to both sides.


Sharpshooter wrote:
Using Ion Cannon will cause any infantry to suffer Tiberium-based death and occasionally turn into Visceroids. Is that supposed to happen?


Yes, so the Ion Cannon is balanced against Nod's Apocalypse Missile (although I admit the major difference between them is that the latter has a significant delay while the Ion Cannon is instant, yet IMO the Apocalypse Missile isn't devastating enough). The Apoc Missile can mutate infantry via the toxic clouds it spawns.

Sharpshooter wrote:
Nod Incinerator infantry is immune to damage from other Incinerators, but will get damaged by random ground and forest fires. Can they be made immune to all kinds of fire damage?


Not while retaining their current armor type, which ensures they are vulnerable to small arms and sniper fire.

Sharpshooter wrote:
Nod Ghost doesn't get damaged by Tiberium, is that supposed to happen?


I think so.

Sharpshooter wrote:
Nod Machinist, especially after seeing the concept art, seems like a really badass guy. Don't think that the current voice that he has does him justice.


Most of the voices are placeholders until we get custom ones (most are taken from other C&C games).

Sharpshooter wrote:
Captured civilian cars don't seem to carry any passengers. Is this supposed to happen?


Yeah, if you mean they don't spawn any civilians when destroyed. That's not really possible, except in missions.

Sharpshooter wrote:
Are the oil pumps ever going to generate money like they do in Red Alert? I remember seeing a tutorial someone posted on how to make that happen in Tiberian Sun, so I was wondering if that will be implimented in the future.


I believe the tutorial is rather complicated and not enitrely bug/side-effect-proof.

Sharpshooter wrote:
Why do some maps have a Hum-Vee instead of the 'Dragonfly' H.V.R.?


The Dragonfly, and other Hover units, don't operate in Ion Storm conditions, so GDI uses the old Hum-Vee in such maps.

Thanks for the comments!

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the comments and feedback. Crimsonum has already replied to most of your comments with the correct answer, so I will only answer those that are still somewhat unanswered.

Quote:
n Skirmish, GDI seems to be getting all kinds of units from crates, both new and old GDI units as well as Globotech ones. Nod, on the other hand, only ever gets harvesters and occasionally a scorpion walker mech. I never got any other units at all. Is this intentional?


Not true. You just seem to have extremely bad luck when it comes to collecting units as Nod. GDI can find all GDI units, GDI TD units and GT Units. Nod can find all Nod units, Nod TD units and GT units.

Quote:
Using Ion Cannon will cause any infantry to suffer Tiberium-based death and occasionally turn into Visceroids. Is that supposed to happen?


It's not an intentional occurrence, but rather a side effect of the coding method used. It doesn't bother us though, it's another way to balance out the super-weapons (that, and just a way to justify the stupid TS bug).

Quote:
Nod Incinerator infantry is immune to damage from other Incinerators, but will get damaged by random ground and forest fires. Can they be made immune to all kinds of fire damage?


Not possible, otherwise all infantry would be immune to embers and stray flames. I know it seems a bit silly, but that's just how it is I'm afraid. Engine limitations again.

Quote:
Captured civilian cars don't seem to carry any passengers. Is this supposed to happen?


Passengers=yes was removed from civilian cars because of accidentally sending your units into them. A simple mis-click could cause you to lose a mission.

Quote:
Are the oil pumps ever going to generate money like they do in Red Alert? I remember seeing a tutorial someone posted on how to make that happen in Tiberian Sun, so I was wondering if that will be implimented in the future.


CCHyper has confirmed Oil Derricks will work as they do in RA2 for Hyper Patch when it is ready. We will be using that method and modifying all older maps that use the Oil Pumps to use the new Oil Derricks. We can't say for sure when this will be though.

Thank you for taking the time to review the mod and I'm glad you enjoy it so far.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro wrote:
It's not an intentional occurrence, but rather a side effect of the coding method used. It doesn't bother us though, it's another way to balance out the super-weapons (that, and just a way to justify the stupid TS bug).


Oh? I didn't know the mutating effect was a side-effect due to engine limitations. What's this limitation/bug you're talking about? Are both the Ion Cannon and Apoc. Missile forced to use the same particle system or something?

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Only the Gas behavior logic is allowed to inflict damage and produce a visible animation at the same time (Ion Cannon's Ionized air effect), BehavesLike=Fire for example wouldn't work the same way. It's ludicrous.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro wrote:
Passengers=yes was removed from civilian cars because of accidentally sending your units into them. A simple mis-click could cause you to lose a mission.

I remember that in the first TS demo mission you could send your infantry into civilian cars, which would then become controllable. I don't t know whether this happened automatically in that version of TS, but couldn't you achieve the same effect via map triggers?

So attach a trigger to all civilian vehicles belonging to the special (or another uncontrollable allied) house and then use the "1 Entered by" event and the "14 Change house" action.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Twisted Insurrection Feedback Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sharpshooter wrote:
The only bug (?) that I encountered is if you have a map with, say max 2 players, and you were to accidentally choose more players (Human or AI) some of them would start in the same location.

This bug happens even in vanilla Tiberian Sun. To me it seems that the game forgets to check map player limits in LAN games (and CnCNet uses the LAN lobby). I personally like it though, I can pick a 4p map and instantly "convert" it into a very aggressive 8p map if I want to.

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CnCNet Client | CnCNet TS patches | More Quality-of-Life Improvements for RA Remastered


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Sharpshooter
Medic


Joined: 06 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks a lot for such a fast reply!

The bug with more players than the map supports in the same starting location only happens if you play on a Network, it doesn't happen in the Skirmish. I discovered it accidentally when a friend I was playing it with set eight players on a four player map, causing each of the starting locations to have two players.

By cars not carrying passengers, I meant that if you were to use Machinist as Nod and capture a car, it will not transport your infantry inside, which I would have thought would have been a pretty good substitute for APC in some of the beginning missions and on low-tech Skirmish games.

As for the crates, I remember collecting them on purpose as Nod just to see what would happen and it was always either a mild upgrade, money, explosion or harvester/walker mech. It was never anything else for me. :/

Also, Nod doesn't have anything aside from its radar to detect underground/cloaked units. It isn't a problem when playing against GDI, but when playing against Nod there were times when I had to just force fire with artillery until they hit something. Seems like a balance problem especially when you play online and your opponent decides to make a small base/stash of invisible units in some random corner of the map.

Another thing that I forgot to mention was the naval warfare. There are some maps (City in Conflict comes to mind) where you are able to build a shipyard, make ships and them actually being useful for something. That being said, the ships are still pretty useless as they are now. There's just no way they could do any serious damage to opponent unless they have units really close to shores or on bridges. The AI also doesn't use them, so there's nothing encouraging you to build them. Also, while Nod has a long-range sub, GDI's equivalent doesn't fire very far at all, making it extremely useless for the amount of money you spend on it. Maybe making it into a long-range bombarding ship (something like 3 artillery equivalent firepower) would make it more useful?
Also, while on subject of ships, they cannot be repaired using the repair vehicle. The cursor changes, but clicking on damaged ship will only result in the repair vehicle to come to the shore and then stand there despite the ship being right next to it.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The navy is removed in Public Beta 5. We came to the conclusion it just doesn't work well enough in the Tiberian Sun engine. Two major reasons are that the Ship Yard has to be a War Factory clone, hence building ships eats up your vehicle queue. The naval units also clog up your sidebar.

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fakeskins
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Will sure miss naval warfare even though the Nod submarine was totally OP compared to another ship indeed and was also way too durable.

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Agent Z
AA Infantry


Joined: 05 Sep 2013
Location: LocationNotFoundException at RealLife.Location.find() at line: -1

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe the navy could somehow be used for campaign only?
I didn't see any used in campaign so far.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's pretty much the plan.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe in Twisted Twilight. #Tongue

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Twilight Insurrection* Bah, that guy!

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Draconator
Civilian


Joined: 28 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please, leave the navy for skirmish too Sad

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