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dedicated units
Moderators: Aro, Crimsonum, ErastusMercy, Lin Kuei Ominae, ^Rampastein
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fakeskins
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject:  dedicated units Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After plowing through the campaign I`ve seen that many units seem to have a much more clearly defined role. It feels like half of the units are dedicated units and the rest cannon fodder or just there for spamming. Can`t all units be turned into dedicated ones?

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's a lot harder than you'd think to balance a game almost perfectly, we've been going at it for years and there are still balance issues, and there likely will be for a long time to come. That's why we do so many online tests, currently, the Cleaver Drone and Enforcer are the most redundant TI units as other units already fulfill their roles.
The Cleaver was supposed to get a more unique role by deploying into a mine, but it proved to be an overpowered abused unit after given the mine ability, so it's looking like it may get removed.

Unit lists go through changes very often and ours will most likely get some more major and minor changes over time, just need to work out the kinks first.

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fakeskins
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Cleaver could be improved. Faster attack rate and more durability and it could make for a dedicated tier 1 anti-infantry. It`s quite a unique unit might I add both in design and function ,it just needs a buff.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Viper is the Tier 1 anti-infantry vehicle. One of the main reasons I like the Cleaver is because it's got a unique design and function (though it's a remake of a unit from the old game, Dark Reign). In terms of in-game usability and practicality, the Viper is definitely the ideal Tier 1 anti-infantry vehicle for Nod, as is the Kazuar for GDI.

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Sharpshooter
Medic


Joined: 06 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe making either Flame Tank or Viper availiable earlier in the game would balance it out a bit? Like say, Viper is weaker but you can get them faster and use them until you get access to Flame Tanks?

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sharpshooter wrote:
Maybe making either Flame Tank or Viper availiable earlier in the game would balance it out a bit? Like say, Viper is weaker but you can get them faster and use them until you get access to Flame Tanks?


But that's exactly as it is - as soon as you build a War Factory, you can start deploying Vipers. When you build a Radar, you get access to Flame Tanks.

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fakeskins
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Viper is really good ,it relies on speed and it`s firepower at that stage. But I was thinking about making the cleaver the tier 1 anti-infantry ,viper would be tier 2 and the falme tank tier 3.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Plus Vipers are better to attack alongside other units, it can also heal in Tiberium so it can escape quickly to regenerate and come back for some more, rargh! Flame Tanks pack a major punch but will inflict a lot of damage to friendlies when destroyed.

Edit: We posted at exactly the same time. #Tongue I don't like the thought of ditching our Cleaver Drone, even though it's deemed "Insurrection's most ridiculous unit", but I'm afraid there isn't much going to save it by the looks of, the topic is open for staff discussion though. There was an old idea by ErastusMercy to make Rocketeers use anti-armour weaponry instead of even having the Enforcer in TI. This was never tested, but I feel it's time to do so!

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What if the cleaver is turned into an AircraftType and gets a normal drive locomotor? This way it could really move through any ground object and using long lasting particlesystem (see Orcabomber on Test1), the unit could fire once the weapon and then do constantly damage to any ground object.

In a game would "activate" it by firing once, and then simply move through the enemy forces like a hot knife through butter. Twisted Evil

\Edit
forget what i said, aircrafttypes don't allow SHPs. damn it.

Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Edit: D'oh, nevermind. The topic is open for staff discussion though, I'll make a topic soon. Smile

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, with the ground locomotor it could be also attacked by ground weaponry. (i think there was a "ghost like unit" research topic somewhere which is doing a similar thing)
But it doesn't works anyway, since AircraftTypes can't use SHPs.


\Edit
Another possibility might be the following:
Ammo=1 (fires the weapon only once and this way activates)
LoopCount=-1 on a damaging muzzleflash anim
The muzzleflash anim follows a unit, so would the damage.

So the unit fires the weapon, the muzzleflash (invisible or special anim) would then constantly play and follow the unit and it would do all the damage.

Even if the unit would damage friendly units once activated, it would then do damage constantly, so you could simply move through enemy forces without any attack-klick-micromanagement. Just move through and damage/destroy them.

Though with this technique you wouldn't get the special attack anims anymore (sparks on armor, blood on infantry)

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't fancy this idea that much, as you could no longer move the Cleavers in groups without them killing each other. Unless TypeImmune would work here?

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Nordos
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Location: Germany, Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wouldn't on particles (remember the old flametanks? Wink )
EDIT: Ah, didn't read correctly. Wouldn't know if damage on animations would work with typeImmune, but doubt it

The cleaver should simply be a killer machine. Highest damage output in the whole game, but quite fragile (as it already is due to heavy armor) and low range. Hunting harvs with it could be fun #Tongue

BTW, what happens if you give it RoF -1?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TypeImmune should work, if the dummy weapon using the MuzzleFlash anim has the same warhead as the damaging muzzleflash anim.
It would be surely cool if a group of these surrounds an enemy army and slowly cuts through them. Or a group moves like a wall of death through an army of infantry.


ROF=-1 is surely not valid. I haven't tested it, but i assume you either can never fire the weapon, or it causes a crash.

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Nordos
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Location: Germany, Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

IIRC you did apply it to a unit once?
Well, I will test it now either way


The idea of having such a weapon sounds cool too, though #Tongue

EDIT: Got the feeling that Rof=-1 == Rof=1

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luxycomplex
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 03 Nov 2012

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject:  do not remove cleaver dr Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

#evil  this is a warning to any mind out there who dare to think to remove cleaver drone.
Do not ever make that happen!!! #Mad

At the moment (at least) I prefer to use it to clear out those annoying visceroid.. Laughing .. out of my base..

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: do not remove cleaver dr Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

luxycomplex wrote:
#evil  this is a warning to any mind out there who dare to think to remove cleaver drone.
Do not ever make that happen!!! #Mad

At the moment (at least) I prefer to use it to clear out those annoying visceroid.. Laughing .. out of my base..

Too late. Use Flame Tanks or Hammerheads instead (which are both much more efficient anyway) #Tongue

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